Revolutionizing Urban Mobility: Bibi Jorissen's Journey with Umob and the Future of MaaS

Lars: 0:01

Today we dive into the story of Bibi Jorssen, founder and CEO of UMOP, the Mobility as a Service Platform, on its way to change urban mobility in Europe. In our conversation, we'll explore the opportunities and business model in mass, beating the odds as a young female founder, and we're going to find out if fundraising can actually be fun. This is Start to Scale, the podcast, where we highlight stories of remarkable founders from South Holland and delve into their scale-up journeys. My name is Lars Kramer and I look forward to this episode the first one of the new season episode 54, and we dive into the story of Bibi, a dedicated entrepreneur passionate about merging technology with sustainability.

Lars: 0:42

She has a master degree in strategy and marketing. She excelled in mobility before, from cutting carbon footprint at General Motors to boosting fleet growth at Greenwells. Until in 2021, bibi co-founded UMOP together with Raymond Powels, who you might know from Go Sharing as a co-founder. They secured 8 million in funding within two years and today UMOP stands as the first mass operator in the Netherlands to integrate all three EMOPED operators so those are Czech Go Sharing and Felix, you know them into one platform. Welcome, bibi, it's great to have you on the show.

Bibi: 1:17

Great. Thank you for the nice introduction and a very warm welcome.

Lars: 1:22

Perfect, I'm going to be doing this in CIC Rotterdam, which is really close from your office. Let me start with one question. With all these options in mobility these days, what is your favorite mode of transport in general?

Bibi: 1:37

That's a good one, I think. In general, I have a favorite mode of transportation, which is walking, which we can do now, now we have our offices in Rotterdam. But besides that, I think, as a Dutchie, the bike is my favorite one. I grow up with it, I use it every day to university, to school, to friends, to family, together with family. I think biking is, in the Netherlands, one of them, the most common, but also my favorite one.

Lars: 2:05

There you go. You look very fit and healthy, so the biking and walking is paying off. I must say we've only met recently, but in our conversations you've come across already as a very, I think, one of the most eager and positive entrepreneurs we've come across. You moved your office close to here. Where's the signal right? When did you move recently? I?

Bibi: 2:24

think January 8th.

Lars: 2:26

So a month ago we got the keys and I'm still doing the final points.

Bibi: 2:31

Right, we're getting there.

Lars: 2:33

Yeah now, a really great place also to grow your team. We're going to dive into your story, but first let's start with a few statements that you can answer with true or false, all right. To be successful in mass industry, experience is vital.

Bibi: 2:51

Good question or a good statement? I think true, yes.

Lars: 2:57

Being a young female entrepreneur works to my advantage. Difficult one, I think no, I hated the fundraising process.

Bibi: 3:09

No false.

Lars: 3:11

Being a CEO can be quite lonely sometimes. Yes, all right, we're going to get to those true or false statements somewhere along the conversation. Maybe let's start with your why You've worked in mobility before, but can you perhaps paint the picture? What is the market opportunity for shared mobility and why are you so passionate about it?

Bibi: 3:33

Yeah, well, I think. If I look back at my adventure, it started more than 10 years ago when I had my first internship at General Motors. They also had Opel there, which is now under another company, but I had a great time there. Together with my manager, we were responsible for bringing the Opel Occasions program into the Netherlands.

Lars: 3:52

Right Secondhand cars.

Bibi: 3:53

Yes, that was already 10 years ago.

Bibi: 3:56

I remember when we introduced the ID and the whole program, nobody was very enthusiastic about it because the focus has always been on new cars, more cars and more expensive cars. So we really made a change there. I really liked that because it was a different way of thinking. It also brought me the opportunity to share that different way of thinking, hear the opinions of how everybody was thinking about it and do something with that. So I really liked that. After all my studies, I started working at GreenWheels, the biggest car-sharing company in the Netherlands Amazing time. I've been working there for two years and I was responsible for more than 100 municipalities, very different from Amsterdam to a very small one in the north, for example but also for the growth of their fleet. So the job had two sides On the one hand, putting all the cars on the streets, so if you see a red car here in Rotterdam, the location has been chosen by me.

Lars: 4:57

Right, it's funny, it's GreenWheels, but the red car is right. Yes, we heard that a lot.

Bibi: 5:02

Yeah, I mean the Netherlands people, that's okay, yes, but I think the Green part is about the green mobility.

Lars: 5:09

Yes.

Bibi: 5:10

And in the past they had a green logo on the cars as well, but that was actually a pretty strategic role as well because, many people. They see those cars, but there's a whole model behind those locations. How do we put them there? Why do we put them exact on that corner of the street? Has a lot to do with infrastructure, for example. Where do people live? Where do our customers live? How easy is it to access that road?

Lars: 5:35

It's kind of an optimization challenge that you have there, Also safety, for example because people also need those cars by night.

Bibi: 5:41

So how do you access a car at night, as?

Speaker 3: 5:45

well, there.

Bibi: 5:47

So, yeah, that was great and I think when I got there that was at Corona time lockdown, very interesting time. But what I currently realized is that Corona could be very beneficial for shared mobility if you had a right approach. So we did. Saw that many people during lockdown started realizing like hey, we have one, two or three cars, why? Like why, and that was a moment I realized okay, we can change consumer behavior, we can let people think differently and we grow from 1,800 cars to 2,500 in all in two years.

Lars: 6:25

Okay, so more shared mobility on the roads, because people are using it and asking for it, yeah.

Bibi: 6:31

So in just two years I worked closely together with the government, with municipalities and with our own customers, and you saw that everybody was so excited. The customers wanted more and more cars. They started using it more. Municipalities have that big challenge in how are we going to redefine urban mobility? Congestion is extremely high these days. It's even getting worse now. Now everybody is getting back on the streets. I think we all saw the news that Tuesdays and Thursdays are terrible on the roads, so I think we have a big challenge there, but I always see a challenge as potential.

Bibi: 7:07

So I also see it as major potential and that's what got me very interested, because if you look at the number of options you have these days, but only 0.1% of all travel cases each day by person is made by shared mobility 0.1% is currently by shared mobility. Oh wow.

Lars: 7:26

So that says something about the huge opportunity in your business to grow.

Bibi: 7:30

That yes, exactly, and I think that's also the foundation of where I wanted to grow and I saw that potential. But I also did realize that if you want to redefine urban mobility, you cannot only do it with shared cars and you need a broader perspective on that and that's when you jumped in.

Lars: 7:51

And do you have any idea about the size? That's interesting because it's now 0.1% using shared mobility. I tried to look up some reports, but you probably know the data better. So what is the market opportunity we're looking at for specifically what you're tackling?

Bibi: 8:04

I think, from a market perspective, I always really like to look at number of rides, but also the revenue that will be involved, and they are now expecting a one trillion revenue in 2030.

Lars: 8:17

One trillion, yeah, and that's in Europe or in.

Bibi: 8:19

Over all the world. So it's over the world, wow, and it's growing yeah.

Lars: 8:26

So the numbers I saw it's 30% a compound annual growth rate.

Bibi: 8:28

I read in one of the reports and I think when I first presented the plan a year ago to new investors, we had 400 billion. So it already increased to one trillion in one year. So you can update your pitch deck, yes.

Lars: 8:39

Okay, actually, before we start recording, isn't it? It's in preparation. Yesterday I checked my own phone and I found I have 13 different mobility apps on my phone. I have check Felix Bakmi. There's also on this podcast Bert Bolt Go sharing Lyme, Tier Yellowbrick, get Jump NS and, of course, uber. What a mess. So on one point, you're solving that problem right. So trying to get those apps in one, how does that work? How does it work?

Bibi: 9:05

Well, I do think, in general, people have now what you are mentioning 10 to 20 different mobile apps on their phone.

Lars: 9:11

So you're saying I'm average. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's your normal there.

Bibi: 9:15

So don't worry, don't worry, I also had them.

Speaker 3: 9:20

Okay, okay.

Bibi: 9:21

We test. Of course we test a lot, but what we are really trying to do is make it more easy for people to make sustainable choices. So for us, it's not really about which modality you use but, to make the access more easy for you, okay, and we did see that many people have those apps but, to actually use them was kind of a problem, because you have 20 different accounts, 20 different payment methods.

Bibi: 9:44

Every operator has its own onboarding system. For one, you need a driver's license, for a gap, you don't need a driver's license, and that really hindered people in using those services.

Bibi: 9:56

So what we did is we integrated all those apps into one which is pretty complex Because, as you can imagine, we are integrating 20 apps into one, 20 systems, 20 different systems. But I think in the end we do it because we fully focus on density and reliability, because to make shared mobility the new standards, we need a dense network and people need to trust the services.

Bibi: 10:24

So for the customer, it doesn't really matter if a moped is green, white, purple, orange it can be all colors these days. What we need and what we want is quick access. So we are at point A and we want to go to B. What are my options? What's the quickest, what's the most sustainable and how can I directly book it without making an account, without doing a new payment? So if you're all integrated in one platform, one app, you have a one-time registration two to three minutes we make sure we do that very well. So to onboard people quickly with a safe system, and then you're good to go, not only here, but in the future also and the future will be very soon also in Belgium, paris, every country.

Lars: 11:07

Right, there's some of those big cities. I can understand it's a complex challenge and I read that I think last week you announced that you were the first one to have all the big three E-mopads companies in there. I can imagine it's difficult to get those ducks in a row. So how do you manage those multiple operators to trust you and to basically hand over part of their data and the infrastructure? How does that work?

Bibi: 11:31

Yeah, well, that's a good point, and that's, of course, one of the most interesting topics, I think, in how do we together work on that ecosystem and building the app? I think what I learned very well is we all have the same goal there. We do as a mouse operator, the operators have customer heads, but also municipality in the government. We want to make cities more sustainable, we want to fight congestion, and we only can do that if we work together. So I think in the past few years, many operators did enter cities. They did also leave cities, for example, and in the end, we were all focusing on their fleet growth.

Bibi: 12:12

But, however, an operator has a maximum because of the permit system on their number of vehicles that they are allowed to put on the street. Ah right.

Lars: 12:19

So that's because of competition, I suppose, or space, or what's the constraints there?

Bibi: 12:23

I think mostly space, because they really want to have some form of control on how they operate on the street and to make sure it's safe to make sure those partners can be trusted as well. So that's an important one, and why I'm mentioning that is because if we want to make shared mobility a great alternative, we need to have access to those vehicles within three minutes. Yeah, really close by, but if one operator can only have 300 vehicles on the street, for example, we're never going to make it For example, in Amsterdam one operator would need 10,000 vehicles in one area to have that density.

Lars: 12:59

Oh, wow.

Speaker 3: 13:00

So they're not going to make it on their own.

Bibi: 13:02

No. So that's what we realized and that's why we are trying to help them there, getting more rights on those vehicles, and that's the common goal that we have and that's how we work together. I think our industry knowledge is very helpful. So Raymond is also a very experienced mobility expert. He worked in mobility for more than 10 years from.

Lars: 13:22

Both sides.

Bibi: 13:24

So operation, selling the vehicles, etc.

Lars: 13:28

Right? So that's your answer to it. Helps to have industry knowledge in this space?

Bibi: 13:31

Yes, I did as well, because we perfectly know how the operation works from their side. We know their challenges, we know where they can grow, and I think that's how we gain their trust as well To really show like, hey, we know your challenges and we want to help you there. We want to grow together, we need easy access to those vehicles and we need more customers to know about these vehicles.

Bibi: 13:54

I mentioned, 0.1 percent is very low. So that's how we help them and that really helps to have that knowledge, to know how to work together, to know what's important for them. And also, I think we all aim for a profitable business and to become profitable you need to have a strong operation, more rights, and we can really help them in getting more rights so they can have more focus on the operation.

Lars: 14:21

Yes, so it's directly linking to their business, but then still so you build the trust and they understand you, and then you need to make things work right. It's quite a technical, also integration implementation. So how did you manage that process?

Bibi: 14:33

I think, first and foremost, most important, there is the team. We really, besides Raymond, build a very strong founding team, not only for mobility experts and mobility industry but also, for example, our operations director is from Krabank.

Lars: 14:49

Okay, also a challenger in.

Bibi: 14:51

Yes, so he really has the expertise in how to manage the whole operation fraud systems, payment systems etc. And it really helps, of course, if you can really show that you know what you are doing there. You have the knowledge in the intern, you have the knowledge in-house. That really helps there, so that's good. For example, our CTO is coming from La Paya, very well-known platform. They had also millions of funding.

Bibi: 15:18

So we really focused on having a team that knows how to scale, that knows the challenges but also really knows how to work with those challenges. And if you present that together, that helps to work.

Lars: 15:31

And then I think the question on many people's mind is and how does the business model then work? Because obviously these rights, they want to keep their own margins, and so how do you make that work?

Bibi: 15:40

Yeah, of course, business model, I think also with the whole funding part, is of course a very unknown question.

Lars: 15:46

Yeah, we're going to get to the funding as well.

Bibi: 15:48

Yeah, that's a good one. I think business model has different perspectives. I think a very base case is just having your margins or on the rights that have been made. So for each right that a customer of U-Mob makes, we have a small percentage of margin To start well, as a new company in the industry, margins can be very low. So we really had to be creative and think of new business models there as well. What we did see is we focused from day one on scalability of the platform, so we didn't only want to operate in Holland, but in Europe in general. And one good thing there is if you are focusing on Europe and rights all over Europe, you have more skill and you have more mass. And especially B2C is focused on mass getting all the customers in and that allowed us to buy like wallets in Europe, for example. So we make bigger deals with the operators because we have the skill because we have the customers.

Lars: 16:47

What does it mean buying a wallet? What does it mean?

Bibi: 16:49

Well, for example, you buy a number of rights, but if you pay them upfront, it can be possible to have higher margins Because you give them some kind of security and you will have those rights. So we really need to be confident of our platform, that we can make those rights. But it allows us to have better agreements there. That also helps us to scale and that is very beneficial. There I personally strongly believe in having the subscription models in the future.

Bibi: 17:20

So I think because we only do full integrations. Every customer is a U-Mob customer. All the rights go via our platform and payments as well. That allows us to have that data in a very secure and safe way. But we can really help our customers in moving smarter and better. For example, a single operator only has data on how their customer moves on a bike or scooter. We can see how they travel with cars, how they travel with bikes, trains, etc. And that really allows us to personalize your journey.

Bibi: 17:56

So we can say hey, lars, you live in Rotterdam. We did see that you are pretty active. You can now try all services for 20 euros a month, or, if you really want to do it big in the future, for 200 euros a month, but then you can use everything. Caps public transport cars etc. And I also strongly believe. If you look, for example, at the bigger platforms, they really have great partnerships with other big companies. So you have also the advertising model there.

Lars: 18:25

So that's the additional model coming in potentially.

Bibi: 18:28

But the baseline where we started is the ride per revenue.

Speaker 3: 18:32

And from. There we will grow.

Lars: 18:34

We need to trust from our customers. Cool yeah and I like that. So buying that I think that's an interesting learning also for other people Starting up projects like this is you prepaying some of the rides? That gives you at least the trust and also the ability to actually do well from the start.

Bibi: 18:54

You have to think big there. I truly believe that was one of our biggest achievements there Think big, not small. Not only one of them, not only Amsterdam, europe and my dream eventually will be the US as well, Of course. World domination. First Europe and then the rest of the world.

Lars: 19:12

So that answered the question of both the business model also how you're growing, the problems that you're solving for your customers, and also the future business models. Let's start on fundraising a little bit because, like you say, it needs a lot of investment upfront, I think, to make this work. It's a platform, it's B2C, so that's different than, I think, some of our B2B a typical B2B revenue driven scale-ups out there. Maybe can you talk us through the process, because today you raised, I think, just over 8 million 2 million back in 2021, another 6 million in October 2023 from prominent investors. What has been your strategy in front-facing? How have you approached it?

Bibi: 19:56

Well, indeed, we started the process in 2021. That's where we raised the first 2 million. I truly believe in meeting the right people at the right time.

Lars: 20:08

Of course, yeah, but that sounds so easy.

Bibi: 20:09

It sounds indeed.

Lars: 20:10

How do you do that?

Bibi: 20:12

Well, I think if you look back when I started my first internships 10 years ago, for example, the first thing my manager told me that day was like hey, build a LinkedIn profile, you're going to need it in the future. And I was like well, I'm 16, 17. Well, why do I need a LinkedIn profile? But as of today, if she ever hears this, I'm still very grateful that she yeah, she gave me that tip.

Lars: 20:34

Yeah, do you remember her name? We could do a shout out.

Bibi: 20:36

Yes, it's Sophie Janssen. Sophie Janssen, if you're listening.

Lars: 20:39

Great tip and also, I think, to a lot of students that are listening to this podcast take this advice, because we do quite a few on-campus recruitment sessions and this is one of the things that I always it puzzles me, because I think everybody should have a LinkedIn account and I think you're the living proof of that. Yeah, it really is.

Bibi: 20:56

And besides that, the living proof is to. It's very cliche, but your network is your network. That's what I always learned, and that is really the case and you really need to invest in your network and many people from my personal experience don't take that time because they prefer doing other things. I always learn to work hard, also during my studies which is pretty hard, but it gives you so many things back, and that's why I'm also here where I am today.

Speaker 3: 21:24

And.

Bibi: 21:24

I always learned.

Bibi: 21:26

I think another valuable thing for me was not only the LinkedIn profile, but also in every room where you ever enter, always introduce yourself, always be humbled there, because people will remember you for being nice for being proactive, and they come back to you as well later, and, of course, that takes time, so it will not have a result in five minutes, but that's what I really learned and if you truly believe in what you are doing, share it everywhere on your socials, in your private network, and I always learned that people that you talk to, they know people and they know people and they know other people, and if you believe in your product, they automatically will share it as well.

Lars: 22:08

Yeah, the network of the network, yes, and then that also because we came here because of the question about investors, so that also brought you to the right investors for that first round.

Bibi: 22:16

Yeah, so if I had the first investor, we got in touch with the other investors as well.

Lars: 22:23

How does that work Because you have some, rather than some, prominent entrepreneurs, right? Yes, so how does that work? Because people always ask how do I get in touch with these people? And then how does that?

Bibi: 22:32

Yeah, I think. Just ask as well. Go to events, use your LinkedIn to reach out to people. Call people, email people. Make sure you have visibility with your work. What?

Speaker 3: 22:46

you are doing.

Bibi: 22:47

Me and Raymond always go to many events to meet people to share the enthusiasm, but also to learn from people. In my free time, I always went to free events. For example, I read many books, many podcasts, and that's giving you new ways of thinking. Yeah, and then also, I learned many things, for example, from the founder of Nike. I read that book. Oh, it's called ShoeDoc, if everybody oh cool.

Lars: 23:10

I haven't read it. Shoedoc Nike story. Shoedoc is very cool. Oh, Put it in show notes.

Bibi: 23:16

It perfectly shows startup life, because when he started Nike, many people said no, because nobody believed in the product. And then a few did, and then it started growing and we were lucky to find people that believe in it as well. I think especially because we know very well what we are doing. The founding team is very strong and we know how to scale it, and I think the power of this platform is the potential of the market, but also the scalability of it. Right.

Lars: 23:45

Yeah, and then, with these first investors, you got your first two million and then later on you needed to follow on rounds to expand further and to basically build the platform. So are those the same investors that then invested further, or how did you approach that?

Bibi: 23:57

Yeah, one of the first one is. So that was, for us, of course, very positive because he still believed in the product. I think, especially in tech, it and what we are doing you really need large investments upfront before you can make it work. So especially having a funding round pre-revenue was, in the beginning, very hard because, you don't have a business model to prove and you need to prove yourself as a team, and Raymond always, and Rieschen always says right the first place.

Bibi: 24:28

You bet on a team, yes, so you sell the dream, you sell the team and I think people do not invest in your app they invest in the team. So and that's what I kept in mind from the start those people we are hiring in those early stages are the people that are going to make it or going to break it.

Bibi: 24:51

And for investors. The team is also very important and how you report and once they are in, of course, your structure is also changing. You need to keep them satisfied, to report properly, and you have a very big responsibility, also as a CEO, to perform well there and to make sure the company is heading in the right direction.

Lars: 25:08

Yeah, I keep them. Is there anything you would do now, in hindsight, anything you would do differently in raising capital either in the first or second round.

Bibi: 25:18

I think in the stages where we went through, I wouldn't do directly anything different. I think what I learned from the next round is also the importance of having investors in that can really bring you value and knowledge of building a scalable platform. So of course, we do have many parties that are interested in helping us grow, but I think we need to be very well, very proactive in finding the right partner to help us also to build a scalable platform. That's what I maybe would do different, but again, I think if I look back at the current investors, they're all very, very successful entrepreneurs. They really helped us in looking from their perspective to the business, giving us insights, helping us, and that really creates value.

Lars: 26:09

Yeah, getting the right people on board. I mean that's a cliche, but getting the right people on board also means getting the right investors on board. That can bring value to the table other than money? Yeah, and then obviously there's going to probably be a next round again, right? So then you're going to. Are you always raising, or how does that work?

Bibi: 26:26

No, I think in the beginning it feels like always raising, but we did build the platform that well and also from the scalability perspective that it should be operating or operable itself within three to five years. But I think for the first two years you will still need the funding round.

Lars: 26:46

And so in the statements you said you actually didn't hate fundraising.

Bibi: 26:51

So do you?

Lars: 26:51

actually love it. Is it like one of the things you like to do?

Bibi: 26:54

Well, I love it.

Lars: 26:55

It's a bit of a stressing but.

Bibi: 26:57

I liked it. Why? Because when doing a funding round, you have to be that sharp. You have to know everything about the business. You have to know every aspect of it Finance, marketing, legal, commercial and that's where I really learned the most in the past two years and investors look different to your business plan than the team does for example so they have different questions which you learn a lot about. That's what I really liked, because everything you do, you constantly are thinking, ok, hey, is this how we can satisfy investors as well? Yeah.

Lars: 27:36

You take that in and then it comes back.

Bibi: 27:38

Yeah, they have very good questions as well, and you learn from it, because many say no as well. And then why do they say no, and how are we going to tackle that with the next presentation that we have for investors?

Lars: 27:50

Yeah, following up on the feedback and then learning and going forward Before we go to the break. Founders also make fuckups. And I think you made one. Would you like to share here on the record what's been your biggest fuckup today?

Bibi: 28:06

I think from an operational perspective, my biggest fuckup was transferring a lot of money to a wrong banking account. That's when I also realized how important it is to have experts in your company as soon as possible.

Bibi: 28:20

That's, in general, I think, a big lesson. Really higher experts in their fields on short term, for example, I never did anything with finance, so get the people in pretty quick to help you. That really helps for the long term that everything is fine. Yeah, I think the biggest fuckup of the team was that we did have a trial period with the application before we went live. But we didn't end that trial period when we went live. So, the first three days, every write that somebody did make was for free.

Speaker 3: 28:51

And we didn't notice that in the first three days.

Lars: 28:54

Ouch, yeah, but you learned, but we learned from it. But the process in place to fix those things, and because we launched it, the rights were not that much.

Bibi: 29:02

So now we have everything in process, it will never happen again.

Lars: 29:05

Okay, getting the right people. And the first fuckup was the money. Did you find the money back?

Bibi: 29:10

Yes, you buy it to the wrong account, okay, so investors can be happy money was back.

Lars: 29:14

Yes, I fix it pretty quickly.

Bibi: 29:16

Yeah, I realized it quickly. The good thing was it was a closed bank account from a supplier.

Speaker 3: 29:23

So it was not like a total. That's where it went wrong.

Bibi: 29:27

I didn't notice they had a new banking account, but I had one bad night of sleep there.

Lars: 29:31

Yeah, for sure. It was strange that all of a sudden had a big amount of money.

Speaker 3: 29:35

No no no, no Okay.

Lars: 29:38

So relatively well. A fuckup in a confined space, that's nice. Thank you for sharing that. We'll go to a very quick break and then we'll be back.

Speaker 3: 29:44

Yes, you're listening to the podcast of Uproaderdam. We help start up skill and grow their business by offering access to talent, access to international markets and access to capital. Curious how we can make the network work for you? Go to Uproaderdamcom. This podcast was made possible by the city of Rotterdam.

Lars: 30:05

Welcome back. I think we've been discussing so many things about your business. You know you as an entrepreneur, the team I think you mentioned the team a couple of times and managing your fuckups as well. So that was really honest there. Before we go to the listeners questions, maybe a more personal question. As a as a as a CEO, it's a busy role and time is not always on your side. In the end, decisions stop with you. So how do you stay resilient? What do you do to keep sane?

Bibi: 30:35

Yeah, I find it very important to work on my on my mental health, but also for my body, so I still managed to go to the gym four or five times a week.

Lars: 30:46

Oh, wow.

Bibi: 30:46

I truly believe. I believe if you want something, you make time for it. That really helps. I find it important because I know this. When I do that and I have lots of energy and I feel energized, I'm also a better person in private life, but especially also in work.

Lars: 31:02

Yeah.

Bibi: 31:04

And, as a CEO of the company, I need to be energized because the team is looking at you and what you are doing, how you are moving, and that energy also links links to them.

Bibi: 31:13

So you bring that energy to the, to the working environment as well. So that's what I do and I always, if I don't have time to go to the gym, I make sure I eat very healthy. That also gives me energy. And might sound a bit cliche, but it's. That's the biggest tip I also gave to to students last time. They told me like, hey, you have such a busy, a busy role, yeah, how do you stay fit at all? Because the days can be long, yeah.

Bibi: 31:38

So I walk to work. Now, yeah, every day it's 30 minutes in the morning, 30 minutes in the evening. That helps in general.

Speaker 3: 31:45

Yeah.

Bibi: 31:45

Yeah, and it's good to have some off time building, building.

Lars: 31:50

So first thing is building mental and physical exercise into your day routine, eating healthy.

Bibi: 31:56

They're also related there. I guess, and I spend lots of time with my family in my free time. Yeah, very good Family.

Lars: 32:03

Yes, and we're not doing podcast recommendations, but there's one podcast you just mentioned in the break that we should all listen to. Yes, which one is that?

Bibi: 32:09

It's the one from Jay Shetty. Yeah, I really learned from it from mindfulness perspective, but also it's mentioning every topic that you can imagine Business, love, personal growth, development and I think it's the second worldwide podcast on Spotify. Oh, really, yes, just after the start to scale podcast by a person. Exactly, exactly. That's the most important, of course.

Lars: 32:35

Cool, so we're going to put that in the show notes for people who want to listen to that Great tip. So we're going to talk about tips or actually talk about questions. We'll go to the listeners questions Now. We always ask our listeners to send in the questions, so check our LinkedIn channel and send in questions for the next guest, if you will, and we might answer them here. Talking about students, the first one, the first question, is from Thijs. Thijs is a student at Rotterdam Business School, actually one of the places where we did a Hack your Career workshop last week, where they worked on scale up challenges. Yes, 150 students. I was really impressed. This question is what do you find most challenging about entrepreneurship and how much did your education help you prepare for this?

Bibi: 33:16

Yeah, well, I did spend some time on my education. Raymond is always telling me that I did three studies in total. Eight years of studying and you really learn discipline there.

Bibi: 33:30

If you are managing to do two master programs and a pre-master at the same time, you know how to be disciplined and to make your priorities. That really helped me in becoming an entrepreneur, because I think back then, if I look back at it, I then already knew that if I did something extra, the results would be great. So what I really learned at university, what also helps me here is if you take a few steps extra, which can be very small, the results can be very great. So I graduated cum laude, for example, because I did spend just like three or four more hours on a project. Nobody was willing to do so, but I did see. If you do that, the results also will be great.

Bibi: 34:13

I think what's most challenging and that also refers back to your statement at the beginning it can be very lonely, especially when you start, because you have an ID. You don't have a team yet. That will come, of course, but I did spend many hours on my own in a room building the business plan, building the case, building the application, building the logo, trademarks, etc. So, but in the end it's all worth it, I think, because those moments break or make your company and if you continue on those moments. Well, that resulted in where we are today, so that's a valuable lesson there.

Lars: 34:56

Yeah, so I like what you said the discipline and also I would not call it overachieving, but making sure that you really make the best of what you can do during your studies and will also help you, I think probably also be noticed right, because people see that you're achieving, that you're leading the pack.

Bibi: 35:10

You don't need to spend extremely many hours on something, but just show people that you did something extra, that you are always proactive, and that's what I'm also learning the team or I hope to learn that to the team is that things are not pretty fast good enough for me. They can always be better. Yes, so I have very high standards and it can be hard to push that to other people as well. Should not always be doing that. Okay, maybe that's a lesson to be learned from your marchers.

Lars: 35:43

Thijs, thank you for asking this question and I hope this inspires you, thijs, to also get better grades. I think at what you're doing, but just be your best self. I think that's the tip there. Second question is from Suden. Suden Arakeliyan and he is the founder CEO of Bacmi. He was actually one of the guests a couple of episodes ago.

Lars: 36:03

Go check it out. Great episode. He's basically doing shared bugfeets, which is cargo bikes in English. His question is why do you think the push for shared mobility is so important right now, and what do policymakers say when you speak with them?

Bibi: 36:19

Yeah, well nice, I know Suden as well. We work together. So well, that's a nice question. I think the push is very important because we all have a major challenge in congestion, CO2 reduction, getting livable cities, for example. My motto and the motto of the company was always to give the streets back to our people and not to cars.

Lars: 36:44

Right, all this parking space is by sitting cars.

Bibi: 36:47

I think we can use that space much better, and in the past few years, especially during Corona, we did see that we want to be more outside, we want to have a nice environment to live in, but it takes some action. And I think the hardest thing to do is to let people change their behavior, and especially when it comes to cars, because it's the standard to have two to three cars.

Bibi: 37:10

And what I find very important there to push from the government and municipality is because they can really make an impact. They can change customer behavior and I think together with all the operators and mass operators, we can give even an extra push. So when I talk to policymakers, they start to realize more and more every year that they need to do something and what I always ask them that it's very strange that in the city center of Rotterdam, for example, you could have a parking spot for two euros an hour. That's not very demotivating people to bring their car to the city. So that's where they can make an impact.

Bibi: 37:50

And then, of course, for example, bakmi, but also we as a mass operator, we should be making sure that there is an alternative for those people who will not use their car. I always told, also when I worked at Green Wheels, that, for example, car sharing is a great alternative to private cars. That's, I think, also our biggest competitor, private cars. But you also need an alternative for an alternative, because if your alternative is Green Wheels and your neighbor is taking that car, then you have a problem.

Lars: 38:19

Yeah, and that's the worry everybody has, or many people have right. Oh, it's gone.

Bibi: 38:23

Yeah, so that's where platform comes in because if you have all the options, you always have the option near you and that's where government can really push, and I see that they are more and more working on that. Ok, and also for Bakmi, for example.

Lars: 38:37

And then I'll ask you a question. Ok, well, talking about thanks, soeren, for asking this question, that is, you're in the same industry, so that's always nice. But then the next question is actually from somebody from the municipality Rory Helsel, nice, I must say she's also on our team. But, she's also responsible partially for mobility projects in the city and her question is have you come across many regulatory challenges in building UMOP and, if so, what is the most difficult regulatory challenge you had to overcome?

Bibi: 39:09

Yeah, I think in general, a challenge with the government and municipalities can be that the processes are very long. So that's what. I quickly realized when I worked at Green Wheels, for example, could take more than a year to put one car on the street somewhere because you need a permit, but many municipalities back then didn't have a working team that was giving those permits or prioritizing permits for car sharing.

Bibi: 39:37

That really changed. So also for Soeren, to come back to his question, that really changed. They have teams now for shared mobility. They prioritize those permits and I think the operation there is very challenging. That can be done better. Luckily they are doing so. I think from a mass perspective, mass is pretty new.

Bibi: 40:00

So, we don't have existing regulatory or challenges there. What I do think is that we can work together with municipalities. They can really help us in reaching out to consumers, for example. I think they are a very trustworthy partner. So the municipality is communicating something. People really believe it and they started using it. We did many, many pilots in trying so, working together with the municipality, but it's very hard to them. It is very hard for them to do so because they are not a commercial party in there. So there's always that balance needed between commercial parties and the government.

Bibi: 40:44

And how can we work together and we are trying to figure out every day how we can do that better and better and actually help them, because I think we have a challenge on accessibility to the vehicles, but also to make it affordable for everyone in the city, and that's where we can help them, if they allow us to help them.

Lars: 41:01

So could it be a scenario that all those big cities are going to be tendering out this? Is that a potential? Because then you would be competing with other potential ones. Is that kind of the end game for this play?

Bibi: 41:16

No, I don't think so. I think the market is big enough to operate, to all operate together, and I hope we can focus more on working together, really doing pilots, instead of making more rules, because that really hinders us in our growth and, in the end, for the end customer, that's not very helpful.

Lars: 41:36

That's a great piece of advice to anybody in mobility in this city, but in many other cities as well. Bernadetta has sent in a question and Fanny Bernadetta is new on our team. She's running our socials, so, whatever you see, she's probably been creating it. Her question is around gender diversity or gender bias. Actually, how do you tackle gender bias situations as a female entrepreneur?

Bibi: 42:04

Well, let me think about that question. I'm not sure how to interpret that question.

Lars: 42:10

So I think the first part is do you actually experience gender bias situations as a female founder? Maybe that's the check in questions.

Bibi: 42:20

Yes and no.

Bibi: 42:21

I think I think yes in a positive way, because it can be negative.

Bibi: 42:27

I think what I really miss is having more female entrepreneurs out there, so this is also a call for all of them to do so, because it's not really that common that a female is leading a company and, for example, the tech team, but also operations.

Bibi: 42:42

We have very much men working at the office as well, but I always really like that that I'm able to manage all of them and to lead the company into a better direction each and every day, and for me, it's all about respect there, so I always make sure to know who I'm dealing with, be respectful to each other, and for me personally, it doesn't matter who someone is or what the gender of someone is. For me, I'm a really person, persons or I care about character. I care about how humble somebody is, how they treat other people in the room, and I also expect that from them towards me. So, then, being a female shouldn't be an issue, but I think I do hear sometimes that they find it very cool that a female is founding a new business, and that's what I like, because then you are inspiring people and then you can use being a female founder in a very positive way.

Bibi: 43:41

I speak to many students at many events and for them it's very inspiring to also see female in a CEO position CEO position and that's really motivating them as well to perform well.

Lars: 43:57

So you use it to your advantage.

Bibi: 43:59

Yeah, and to inspire.

Lars: 44:03

I think the Melchord sisters from Equalture said a similar thing, actually that they're using the fact that they're female founders, For instance, even to get on the stage. You can actually use it to your advantage and you're inspiring others. I think that's a super important part. Cool. Thank you for the answer. We have our final question and it's interesting, that's from Raymond Powell. So who is your co-founder? Of course, I think he's also the CCO, officially, right, so the company. His question is what have you learned from the people around you and what do you hope people learn from you?

Bibi: 44:36

Yeah, good question from Raymond. I think first, what I learned from other people is to always stay positive and optimistic, especially from Raymond. He sees a positive case in any negative case no matter how negative it is.

Bibi: 44:55

And that really inspired me, also in being the CEO of this company, to bring that to our team. People are really looking up to the founding team in what they are doing, how they are moving, and I know that enthusiasm should be there every day. No matter how many things go wrong on one day, we always end up positive. So that's what I really learned from him, but also from all of the other team members, because they all share that character. What I really hope to learn to them is that I find transparency and clarity very important. I think, as a leader, you should be responsible for having transparency and clarity in the company, to don't give stress to people and to always know what's going on, in which strategic direction we are going, for example. And what I really hope to learn, or what people learn from me, is always to keep calm and keep your focus in any situation. I think in startup environment, with many entrepreneurs, many young people, our topics vary from day to day.

Bibi: 46:01

They go from left to right. Do we go to Europe? Yes, no, that changes every day. When do we do it? And I think in times, for example, when you are in pre-revenue stage and you want to make revenue, people want to make revenue really quick, so how are we going to get there? And sometimes that's losing your focus.

Bibi: 46:20

So I always brought back the team to the focus, like, hey, this is who we are, this is what we're going to do, and we need to be here together in five years, so don't get distracted by other things.

Bibi: 46:30

This is the focus and it can be that for one or two weeks we are not getting to that goal, but in the end, if I look back, that focus really brought us where we are now. So to always stay calm and to bring the team back to their focus and make decisions there. And one important thing I learned and I hope to also inspire other people with there if there's any resistance within the company, go there at first, because if there's resistance to whatever topic it is, that's where you need to be, that's where you need to listen and that's where you need to say, to make decisions.

Lars: 47:10

Interesting combination keeping focus on the one side and going to where what do you?

Bibi: 47:15

phrase it as the resistance is where resistance is yeah nice.

Lars: 47:20

That's a great tip. I think we'll you know what we'll implement that in our team as well. I think that's also the things that make a good CEO, Maybe, so Thanks, Raymond, for asking that question, feeding us that question that brings us to the end.

Lars: 47:34

So thank you for sharing your story and giving us an insight in how you run this company and how you're making it bigger, and we are definitely going to see each other much more as your business grows and as we hopefully can help you with whatever you need. We'll put all the links that we talked about in our show notes, but, most importantly, after thanking you, we always close off with a song that you select, so would you like to explain which song you chose and why?

Bibi: 48:01

Yes, that's a good one I actually chose you never walk alone from Lee Towers For several reasons. I didn't have to think about the song actually that long, because if you look to Roller Dam and the character of Roller Dam, then Lee Towers is, of course, a big icon there. The thing I really like about the song is it always unites people wherever they play it. They play it in football stadiums, they play it at parties, and people are always getting together, hugging each other, and that's what I really like.

Bibi: 48:34

I'm also a big fan of sport games, and then especially the top players in every league, so that can be soccer, but it can also be baseball. We follow the NFL at home, for example, as well, and the song always reminds me about the atmosphere in those stadiums, the teamwork that those players have, and I always see that the teamwork that, for example, the biggest football clubs in the Netherlands have. That's something you also want in your working environment, because if that team is so strong and they have the same goal, they can do things that are magic in my opinion. So that's why I really like the song. I deeply respect all those pro, all those athletes, in doing their job, and the song just gives me happy feelings, and I think in building a business you actually never walk alone because people are always willing to help you. So keep that in mind and if you need help or you need advice, then ask for it.

Lars: 49:39

Excellent, great explanation, great song. Thank you out there for listening. If you like this episode, please do us a favor and, while you listen to the song, leave a rating or a comment in Spotify or Apple, because it really helps us to keep making this content. Until next time, keep it up.